difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve

You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. and feeds it through an expansion valve. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. If you have the work done, be sure you find a true "A/C" shop that can make up lines. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. gital control scheme. . Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. The non-flammables can have R22 type gas which is not compatible with most rubber hoses or they have gases that contribute to global warming. A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. AC R12 to R134A Conversion | MR2 Owners Club Forum Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? This may be the source of your oil confusion. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. They should be able to keep you comfortable on a long trip, but don't expect vent frost in 3 minutes or lesss.2) Too much oil can reduce cooling capacity, and the effect is not linear. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Hot coolant migrates up through the core by convection (is that the word? Trinary Pressure Switch $ 39.99. I'm thinking I might have put too much oil in the system - everywhere i read had a different amount - the manufacturer of the compressor, the MB factory service manual, online forums. SO here's my question. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. Inasmuch as R134a has a global warming potential thats over 1000 times more threatening than carbon dioxide, its better than R12. Answer: OK, I'll bite. Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Expansion valves are an active device, they regulate the flow of refrigerant to the evaporator depending on evaporator temperature. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. R12 to R134a change expansion valve? - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues.You could improve the cooling capacity by replacing the condensor with a high effeciency parallel flow unit. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. Is it exponential, squared? Very interesting! What effect would it have on performance, if any? _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. R134a vs R12 - What is the Differences? - Rx Mechanic In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. I'm putting r12 back in my system, but all of the valves I can for the application (1990 jeep grand wagoneer) say r134a on them. CLUTCH CYCLING SWITCH. I used a full can of evap cleaner. $21 . Is that reasonable?Vent airflow is good, I think. |. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. For R12, its mineral oil. Add to cart. There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. Measure what you have now.3) Go back to the page in step one, and find the largest condensor you can put in your vehicle. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. This is an electronic tool that sucks in air through a tube and across a sensor. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! Further production of R12 was banned in some developed countries by the Montreal Protocol because of its harsh effect on the ozone layer. Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. Jun 17, 2011. The oil is spread all over your system when it is at rest. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. Even if the system leaks, repairing the leaks and recharging it with R-12 is usually the best repair alternative. However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. This can be very very expensive. 1.5 ounces - hmmm. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. Minor adjustments to the expansion valve and other controls may be necessary for some plans. June 21, 2022 difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . Neuro spine Super Speciality Clinic - Above Apollo Pharmacy, Bangarpet Circle, Kolar - Bangarpet Road, Kolar Town. A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. Welcome to rxmechanic.com. Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! Is there a graph? In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. R12 to 134A conversion. | Allpar Forums Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. It is a haloalkane and hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that has thermodynamic properties, potential global warming for one hundred years, and insignificant ozone depletion. 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. CR4P). If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. It is also used in automotive car conditioning and the plastic industry. had writing on the side that said R134a. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. A/C Expansion Valve Replacement Cost. How dumb!I will jumper the aux fan and redo the test. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. is good, then I should be looking elsewhere? The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. . At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. It may take a couple of tries to get things really clean.The laser is usually close on clean surfaces, but I prefer a T/C. By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . 5) A/C System Failure. Amazon.com: 134a Valve The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. Jun 19, 2007. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. Depending on which circuit diagram fits your car (cough, no vin list exists) you have either one or two switches controlling the aux fan. R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% A/C systems designed to use R-12 will cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. R134a has the chemical formula CF3CH2F and is known as tetrafluoroethane. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. Thanks for the input. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Hi pdrayton- If you can remember the oil capacity that you found in all your research and post that, then bohica and others can have a better idea if you have too much; see if you can find that info! I had a 1991 BMW switched to 134a by just changing the low pressure charging valve, flushing and refilling with 134 (maybe with 10% . If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. Also called the orifice tube. R-12 to R-134a Conversion. R134a and water have the same abilities to change the state but R134a can do this more rapidly and at a much lower temperature than water. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. Bookmarks: Digg; del . So to keep things simple and to avoid controversy and politics we have R134a. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. There are three different refrigerants officially sanctioned by the EPA for automotive usage: r-12, r-. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. Any ideas from the info above? Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. The oil used in R12 systems is not compatible with R134a refrigerant. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Putting R12 into a R134 vehicle | AnandTech Forums: Technology Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. Hence, let us continue to fix it. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. That switch should close @ 52c. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? What is needed? We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. At 2000rpm, windows open, highest fan, hi pressure stabilized at 225 psi, low 25psi.Ambient 81F, vent 61F. The difference between R12 and R134a TEV (exp valves) is primarily the 'superheat'. Generally, the new amount is 75-85% of the quantity advised by the manufacturer. Expansion Valve Differences R12 vs R134 - Automotive Air Conditioning It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. A. Pressure/temperature plot of R134a vs. R12 is shown in figure 1. We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for system losses. The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1983Make: MercedesModel: 240DEngine Size: 2.4Refrigerant Type: R12Ambient Temp: 90Pressure Low: 35Pressure High: ?Country of Origin: United States, Hi, this is my first post, so please take it easy on the noob. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . Replace the drier with a drier that has a desiccant that is R134a compatible, use new R134a o-rings. 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